Thursday, December 24, 2015

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas to you from 70 years ago at the Sacred Heart Church of Warrensburg.


That's all the Christmas negatives I have from the Simmons Studio collection, so for your additional viewing enjoyment, here's a blurry picture of the inside of a church.


From the choir's point of view.

Those are not bullet holes in the walls - the negative is deteriorating.  Why some and not others is a mystery to me.

Wednesday, December 16, 2015

Nathan Hale THE TRIAL OF OLD DRUM Please Watch and Share


Please watch and share this video of our dog, Old Drum's famous trial by NY Times
Bestselling graphic novelist!!!!!!

Thursday, December 10, 2015

Happy Halloween

I found this series of pictures in the "Unknown Schools" section of the Simmon's Studio collection of negatives.  I thought about waiting until next Halloween to publish this but who knows what a year will bring. Eat desserts first and publish cool pictures when you find them.


If you think you might recognize any of these kids, here's another look at them without their masks.


Do you recognize any of these kids, or their teacher, or the school?  If so let me know in the comments.

I may as well throw this Halloween decoration picture in. No extra charge.


Sunday, December 6, 2015

When Trick Photography Goes Horribly Wrong

I think the photographer double exposed this negative to make it look like this was an open-air structure with only a cloudy sky for a roof.  It's a mystery to me how, and why, he did this.  Another mystery to me is how Lisa Irle was able to recognize this building.


She got her first clue when I showed her the picture of this kitchen.
"It looks like the kitchen in one of the buildings at Knob Noster State Park," she said.  

Then I showed her the double exposed picture. She went immediately to her copy of the First Annual Photo News Edition of The Star-Journal, June, 1939 and opened it to this page.

There it is! The right hand page right in the middle. Do you see it.  It's the same fireplace, the same support beams along the ceiling.


That woman really knows her reference collection.




Friday, November 27, 2015

Unknown Buildings

Here's a dismal, highly forgettable structure that probably didn't make the cover of Stunning Architecture magazine. Still, it was, at one time, important enough to somebody to ask a professional photographer to come out and take a picture of it.


And here's a bunch of junk piled on a table in a basement somewhere:


Still, these pictures are part of the Simmon's studio collection and they're older than I am - so they're history.  If anyone knows anything about either of these pictures please leave a message.

Wednesday, November 11, 2015

The Baker Family

Here's an unusual picture.  Unusual because, for the first time in Simmons Studio Collection history, I pulled out a picture of a large family and I can tell you who they all are:

Front row from left to right:

William Carl Baker, Jr., the oldest child, was called J.R. by his family.  He was a World War II vet wounded in the Phillipines. Through the 50s and 60s he was a member of the Missouri Army National Guard commanding the local unit as a Lieutenant Colonel.  He was the founder of Bill Baker Insurance and was for a time the mayor of Warrensburg.

Leona Baker, was the the mother of six. She was born in Oklahoma Territory to the Narron family. According to Buddy she was a wonderful woman and a great cook.  She could take nothing and make a fine meal for eight.

William Carl Baker (called Carl), was the town's iceman.  Although he lived into the 1960s, he never learned to operate a car.  He drove a horse and wagon for his ice delivery business and for the Daily Star Journal when they needed someone to drive their team in parades.

Back row left to right:

Robert L. (Buddy) Baker worked most of his life as a printer for the Daily Star Journal and Central Missouri State.  He's currently the volunteer groundskeeper at the Historical Society.

Neomia May (May May) Baker married George Taraba.  Together they ran the Western Auto store in Knob Noster.  May May currently lives in Harmony Gardents in Warrensburg.

Blanche Joan (Jo Ann), the baby of the family, was named after Blanch Russell, co-owner of the Russell Brother's clothing stores.  She married Joe Scalf and moved to Kansas City where, along with her daughter, she ran several restaurants.

Alberta Baker married Joe Hensley and moved to Grain Valley.

Albert Baker, twin brother of Alberta, was a Korean War veteran.  He was the First Sergeant of the 635th Aviation Batallion, Missouri Army National Guard for many years.  Most people knew him as the sextant of Sunset Hills Cemetery.

Joan and Alberta died within weeks of each other in 2010.  Albert followed them in 2011.

Tuesday, November 3, 2015

The True Story of Norman Little

I found a negative from the Simmons Studio collection that was stuck in an envelope with the words "Private Little" written on the back.

When I searched the family files, I found this interesting story published December 4 & 5, 1967 of the life and death of one Norman Maurice Little who seemed to fit the description (I've combined several articles):

"A fire of unknown origin early Sunday morning at 121 North Water Street resulted in the death of Norman Maurice Little, 36, who was visiting in the home.
Little was apparenty alone in the house at the time.
He was found by firemen, unconscious on the kitchen floor, and immediate efforts to revive him with heart massage and resuscitator were begun and continued until the ambulance arrived.
Efforts were continued at the Jonson County Memorial Hospital until 2:30 a.m., at which time he was pronounced dead of asphyxiation.

Survivors include his wife Neomi (Collins), 416 West Market Street and three daughters Aurelia, Norma Jean and Connie Jo of that address; two sons, Kelvin and Anthony, Kansas City, his mother, Hannah Brown, 3419 Mersington, Kansas City; grandparents Mr. and Mrs. Clarance Harvey, 108 South Washington Street; a brother Herbie Lee Nelson 215 Polk Street.  Additional survivors include two step-children, Sheila Fae Little and Louise Ann Collins, both of Warrensburg, and his uncle, Leo Brown and Mrs. Brown with whom he made his home."

He had served in the Armed Forces from 10/28/48 to 3/29/50."

Thanks to Shirley Briscoe for confirming that the Private Little pictured above is the same Norman Maurice Little who met his untimely fate so early in life. Now I am sure that I'm telling the true story of Norman Little.

Sunday, October 18, 2015

Ernest Collins

After publishing so many pictures of Johnson County residents who have been long gone and forgotten, it's refreshing to find some negatives in the Simmon's Studio collection of a man who is still in the area and can tell me about the pictures.

Ernest Collins, a life-long resident of Warrensburg is the son of Laura Frances and William Collins.  He graduated from Howard School in 1947.


He spent 20 years in the Air Force.  Here is a picture of Ernest and his brother, Kenneth, taken in the early 50s after Kenneth joined the Army.


After Ernest retired from the Air Force he worked for another 20 years as a civilian mechanic at Whiteman AFB.  Mr. Collins has been active in community affairs for many years.  In 1977, he was elected to the Warensburg City Council for a three-year term.  He became the first black ever elected to the Warrensburg governing body. He was a leader in the effort to save Howard School and preserve it as a historical structure.  

In the book, "An Informal History of Black Families of the Warrensburg, Missouri Area," by Lucille D. Gress, Collins recalled the days of segregation in Warrensburg.  "I always lived in an integrated neighborhood but I went to a segregaed school.  I was a grown man before I could get into the restaurant; I had to go to the back door in the early 194s.  I had to go to the dentist after 5:00 p.m." 

He is currently on the Historical Society Board but health issues keep him mostly at home these days.  He'll be 86 in December, 2015


Tuesday, October 13, 2015

Press Release
Warrensburg Fright Nights –October 16 and 17, 2015
 Ready for a haunted tour of the Old Courthouse square on Old Main Street?    If so, then Warrensburg Fright Nights will be a treat!  The Warrensburg Convention and Visitors Bureau and Historic Preservation Commission will team up with the Johnson County Historical Society for a fundraiser that will give visitors a frightfully good time. 

October 16 & 17 Old Town will come to life (or afterlife?) with the ghosts of Warrensburg past.      A play—“Too Long in the Field”-- set six months after the conclusion of the Civil War will be presented in the Old Courthouse on North Main Street.  Written by educator and reenactor Anne Mallinson, the play highlights the troubled post-war era. The bride and groom are from families on opposite sides of the conflict so don't expect a quiet ceremony.

 In addition to the play, audience members are invited outside to look for specters that will haunt the square.   Visitors may take a hayride, or walk, a route around 3 blocks near the Old Town Square to find notable former residents in  ghostly form at different points through the tour.  Seating is limited for the Wedding, so get your tickets now.   Bake Sale items will be available. Included will be a gypsy fortune teller,  the ghost of Marsh Foster, and Paul Landkamer serving Wild Edibles a la the grasshopper dinner of 1875 for anyone so bold.  A true and false quiz on the hayride will reveal real historical facts and a chance for a prize.

Thursday, October 8, 2015

Little Families

Sometimes a family consists of only a parent and a child.


And then, for the parent, that one little child is the whole world - their one reason for living.


For years these pictures may have hung on someone's wall.  Now they may be preserved in someone's scrapbook.  Please let me know in the comments if you recognize either member of this little family.

Friday, October 2, 2015

Brown Telephone Company

My sister, Sue Nuckles, was a telephone operator for United Telephone for years. Although this picture was probably taken before she was born, she was very familiar with this old switchboard.

Here's what she had to say about it:

 I worked on that cord board. I think at the time it was nearly 100 years old and it was still working when they took it out. 



 It could do more than the computerized crap they brought in to replace it.  With the old cord board, somebody could call in and say "I can't get Mom's phone to ring.  I'm worried about her."  We could force the phone to ring by dialing the number over and over.  We would tell the customer that he/she would not be able to hear us but we were working on the call, close the key and put up the call over and over until we could get the phone to ring.  It was complicated but it worked.  We might have 20 cords up and we had to keep checking each one to see if the phone was ringing.  Once we got it to ring we would move the waiting customer to that circuit and take down the rest of the cords. When they brought in the computerized boards, we couldn't do that anymore.  The customers were mad. 


Then there was a change at the CEO level.  He was from Ohio.  The Warrensburg office was going to be the call center for the entire US.  This guy moved it to Ohio.  He said the Ohio operators were not going to be laid off. So, the Warrensburg operators were laid off.  

United Telephone started out in the 20's as Brown Telephone Company, founded by Clayson Brown.   http://www.sprint.com/companyinfo/history/

Clayson Brown built his company offering service to farmers and little towns that Bell and the other big companies didn't want.  If a farmer wanted a telephone in the middle of a corn field, he would put the phone in the middle of the field.  All the neighbors knew it was there and would use it too.  In those days, they didn't put up poles, they just ran the cable on the farmer's fence posts.  Laws were later passed preventing the use of fence posts.

The name of the company was changed to United Telephone sometime in the '70's I think.  I remember when United Telephone completed the buyout of Sprint.  Because Sprint was a more recognizable name, they started using it.  Everything became United Telephone dba Sprint.

Here is another informative website.

http://www.fiercetelecom.com/special-reports/19-people-who-changed-face-wireline-telecom-industry/cleyson-brown-founder-brown-tel

Sunday, September 27, 2015

Two Families

I found two interesting family pictures in the Simmons Studio Collection of negatives.  One family seems so jolly,

After seven children and upteen thousand years together, Mom and Dad are still sitting close together. Dad's even taking the opportunity for a little elbow feel. Happy Dad.

The other picture is also of a couple and their adult children.

Everyone in this family is so serious.  They've made it through the Great Depression and now they have a son in the service.  They've been through a lot.

Does anyone recognize either family.  If you do, leave a little story about them in the comments.

Wednesday, September 16, 2015

The Wonderful Bond Between a Parent and an Only Child

Some of the pictures from the Simmons Studio collection tell a heart-warmng tale about the special love that parents feel for their only child.

Look at this happy family:


The joy they've found in their only child is apparent, but it's nothing like the bond that has formed between this boy and his loving parents.

He's relaxed into his father's arms, but he's exchanging an impish glance with his mother that leads me to believe they share a charming secret that Dad isn't wise to.  Kind of like, "So Dad still hasn't realized that the chocolate you gave him this morning was really Exlax?"

If anyone knows the identity of either happy trio, please leave a comment on this page

Thursday, September 10, 2015

Williams Drugs

Do you remember Williams Drugs?


Lots of people called it "The Courthouse Drug Store" and for good reason.  Murry F. Williams bought the store which stood at 203 N. Holden, in March 1947 from Roy Courtney (Courtney - Courthouse.  Get it?). Rather than remove the old Courthouse Drug Store signs, Williams just put his sign up with the others.  

It wasn't until December 2, 1960 that he remodeled the building and formally opened the store as Williams Drug Co.  
Maybe that's when he removed the Court House Drug Store lettering done in concrete below each window. In 1962, the business phone number changed from 101 to 747-3551 so the sign in the upper left hand corner had to be changed, too.

Here's an excerpt from The Daily Star Journal written on Dec. 1, 1960:

"Mr. Williams...purchased the store in March 1947... Later that year, Mr. Williams' father, the late Murray Q. Williams, sold his interest in the Vernaz drug store to his partner, Reynolds Archauer, and assisted his son in what is now known as the Williams Drug Company.  Mr. Willaims died in June 1954.
"Mrs. Williams, the former Jacqueline Hogan of West Plain and their son, Jack, now are in the store and another salesman is C.A Kanoy.
"Clarence Harvey, Negro, has served as porter in the store for many years."

Here's what that building looks like today.

I wonder where those concrete Courthouse Drug signs are.

Tuesday, September 1, 2015

Ma Brown's Q-S Lunch

Many people may have memories of Ma Brown's, a little sandwich-and-beer shop on the courthouse square.  Buddy Baker certainly does.  He spent a lot of time there when he got back from following the pipeline that was being built across the nation just after World War Two.

(Warnick Dodge stood to the east of Brown's and Harmon Motors was to the west.)


He had made friends with another pipeliner from Warrensburg, Billy Brown, who was the son of Laura "Ma" Brown and her husband Hick.  Hick was a trucker who hauled cattle from this area to the Kansas City Stockyards leaving Brown's Q-S Lunch for his wife to run.

When the two young men got back to Warrensburg, Buddy joined the 52-20 club. (The government gave World War Two vets a 52-week pension of $20 a week allowing them to take a year off to recover from the trama of war.)  Buddy and Billy spent their free time at the restaurant.

Buddy remembers it as a friendly place where college students and factory workers congregated for lunch. Some people came in to wait for the bus that ran several times a day between Warrensburg and Whiteman Army Airfield until the airbase was demobilized.  There were booths and a Seeburg Jukebox.  A yellow cat named Seeburg greeted the customers.


The Brown family even introduced Buddy to another regular custormer, Francis Walz, who would later become his wife of 50 years.

Ma Brown's is now Old Barney's on the Courthouse Square. Notice that the top of the facade has been removed so that it is now lower than the building to the right of it.


Does anyone else have any memories of Ma Brown's Q-S Lunch?  If you do, we'd love to hear them.

Friday, August 28, 2015

Help Harold Remember Madelyn's Pavilion!!!

Hello Everyone!!! We got a letter today and I would like to share it with you and see if anyone has ever heard of the place in question. It's a great memory from Harold G. who is trying to write his memoirs and wants to make sure he gets it right... Please, help us help him???
"Dear JCHS,
I was stationed at Sedalia Army Air Force Base in 1944 and 1945 and was able to visit my wife often in a rented room in the home of the county attorney in Warrensburg. The bus, which I rode from the base, let me off in the middle of town. I would walk past a place called Madelyn's Pavilion to get to the county attorney's home.
Decades later my nephew was stationed at the base which became Whiteman AFB. He met and married a girl from Warrensburg named Paula S. She told me she never heard of "Madelyn's Pavilion." I don't think I just dreamed about it. It looked like it could have been a baseball park sometime in the past. On Saturday evenings, as I would pass, joyful sounds came from it. It was a place where Afro-Americans had great entertainment with music."

Does anyone have any recollection of this?
Peggy Nuckles, please ask Buddy for goodness sakes : ).
Hope we can help Harold.

Tuesday, August 25, 2015

They Looked a Lot Like Each Other

Sometimes when I look at these old pictures from Simmons Studio, I'm struck by how similar people are.  Here's a photograph taken over 60 years ago of two powerful men.

Surely they are a father and son who were once famous in their neighborhood for their feats of strength.  I imagine they could be intimidating characters when they were angry.  I'd hate to have them come to my door wanting to discuss what my dog did to their lawn.

These young ladies, on the other hand, look as sweet as can be.

They are probably sisters.  They may not have been twins but they sure looked a lot like each other.

If anyone recognizes either of these couples, please leave a comment telling us who they are.

Wednesday, August 12, 2015

Check Out These Low Prices

I did a quick search on the internet and you can still get men's cloth coats on Amazon.com for about the same price.  They even look kind of the same as these coats - only shorter and not as elegant.  I think this is a picture of a store window at Rosenthals taken in the late '40s or early '50s - which, in my opinion, was the peak period for cool clothes for both men and women.


Modern cloth coat for $24.99 (See, it just isn't as cool.)

Speaking of great clothes and low prices.  Here's another picture from the same period.  

See the woman in the background.  Actually, I hate the skirt with the tiny pompoms around the knees, but I wish I had her waistline.

7-Up for 95 cents a case.  She should stock up.



Thursday, July 30, 2015

Life Goes By So Fast

One day, you're a cute kid posing for a school picture, and then a few short years later, you're part of the don't-buy-green-bananas crowd looking at images of your former cute self on a history blog.

Speaking of which - do you see yourself here?




I'd make fun of the bobby sox, but I still wear them.



Thursday, July 23, 2015

AMANDA UMBLE... More Info to Come Later!!!


Yesterday was a really great day of detective teamwork at the JCHS!  This group of (r-l) Dr. S. Mustakeem, Librarian Makiba Foster and two students Will and Zoe traveled from Washington University in St. Louis to seek information for an article Dr. Mustakeem is writing on an important person in Missouri history about whom almost nothing was known.  I'd like to share this great example of accidental history in action!

The goal of their visit was research of primary sources focused on a young woman, Amanda Umble, who was sentenced to hang for stabbing another woman over a man.  (Much like another case a few years later in Johnson County when one of the Heard girls from Bristle Ridge was killed by another with "an old case knife".)

Umble's case was a rallying cry for the rights of black women at the time, and Dr. Mustakeem's research had led her search to Johnson County where Amanda had later married a man named John Miller.   Miller was a hostler at T.E. Cheatham's which we discovered may have been the old Grover place in the 200 block of East Gay Street.   The group first searched through the card catalog, family files and city directories for any traces of Amanda Umble and her family.  She had proved difficult to locate before, but clues emerged from the files and records.

By afternoon all hands were employed in seeking out hidden tidbits.  The students continued combing the family files.  Herb Best went to find the graves of Miller and his son at Sunset Hill.  Betty Marr found a photo of the old Grover place.  Dr. Mustakeem and I went down to the archives and looked for a circuit court record of a divorce which was indicated in a census.   There was high glee when it was located!  The team reassembled in the Archive Room to intensify the search.  The photo above shows the group searching for mentions of the case in court indexes.

The afternoon ended with a trip to Sunset Hill cemetery to see the gravestones of John and his kin and then on to Trails Regional Library where I left the team looking at microfilm of newspapers more recent than those in our collection.   At Trails, Ms. Foster shared with me that she was so excited that their search had begun in the CARD CATALOG!   She has noticed, as have I, that younger generations are under the false impression that EVERYTHING is on the internet.  She is hoping to start a program that will encourage this generation of students to seek out these valuable and unique resources.  What a great day of delving into the informational treasures of the JCHS.   Thanks to all those  who have gone before us for creating this great trove of knowledge!!!   Lisa Irle, Curator

Wednesday, July 22, 2015

Women in Costumes

It's hard to say what's a costume versus what are normal, everyday clothes.  I define a costume as anything you wouldn't wear to Walmart.  For example, the lady below is not dressed properly to go to Walmart.


Instead, she went to Simmon's Studio and had this picture taken.  I don't know why.

These women from the Alpha Sigma Alpha Sorority are also wearing costumes.  


I sent this picture to the Alpha Sigma Alpha Headquarters and asked them if they knew anything about this event.  I never heard back from them.

Do you have any information about either of these pictures?  




Wednesday, July 15, 2015

An Embarrassingly Awful Picture of Bruce Uhler

It all started when I found this picture in the collection of old negatives from Simmons Studio.


There was no record of a clothing store in Johnson County named Rosenthals, but Lisa Irle, who is a genius at finding little-known historical details quickly dug up a 1938 article that explained the connection between the Rosenthals and the famous Russell Brothers chain that originated and once thrived here:

"Negotiations are under way... for one of the buildings...[in Lexintgon in which the] Russell Brothers will establish their fouth major store...

"A buying and sales conference was held at the store here... Those here for the buying part were H.R. Rosenthal, president of the St. Joe Hat and Cap Company of St. Joseph, and Marice Rosenthal, sales manager...  When H.R. Rosenthal was on the road as a salesman, Mr. Russell gave his first order of merchandise to him and they have maintained a friendship since.

"The original H.H. Russell operated his clothing store at 123 N. Holden street back in the 1890s, then in March of 1915 when Mr. Russell’s sons Winfrey B. and Hawley H. Russell opened their businsess."

While Lisa was digging around in the Russell Brothers file, she came upon this picture.



The handsome lad in the bizarre clothing is Bruce Uhler. This picture was taken in the early 70s when people actually dressed like that. Although you would have to dig your way into the dustiest corner of an old thrift shop to find a costume like that now, it was the best in style back then.

However, if anyone feels embarrassed by this picture, this blog can be deleted for a mere $10,000 donation to the Johnson County Historical Society.

Wednesday, July 8, 2015

Who Are They?

I love mysteries.  But I love solving them even better.  Maybe someone can help me with this one.

This huge group recorded on a negative in the Simmons Studio collection might have been a reunion.  The event was significant enough for them to call a professional photographer to come out and take a picture of them all squished together.


I've zoomed in on some of the faces.  All ages from babies to oldsters are represented.  The men run the gamut in dress from overalls to suits and ties.


Maybe the cars in the background will give a hint as to the approximate date of the picture.

Does anyone have an idea about when, where or why these people gathered on that  long-ago day?

Wednesday, July 1, 2015

Helpful Little Hints

The words that the photographer wrote at the edge of some of the negatives in the Simmons Studio collection are very helpful.  Take this picture for example:


Since the photographer wrote "queens - WHS" across the top of the negative, I assume that this is a picture of the WHS queen and her court.  The only thing I don't know is the year this was taken and the names of the people in the picture.  Could someone help me out on this.

This negative had "Kodak Safety" printed on the edge:


I couldn't find anything about the Kodak-Safety wedding in the family files so I'd appreciate some help on this picture, too. 

Thanks in advance.

Tuesday, June 23, 2015

Oh My, Oh My, OH MY!

After the gloomy groups that were featured last week, I thought I’d cheer you up with a picture of this happy family.  Their names were written on the margin of the negative from the Simmon’s Studio collection.  

They are Marvin and Kathryn Colster along with their two children, Jerry and Jane.  


Marvin Colster was a life-long resident of Johnson County born  to John Frederick and May (Gardner) Colster on June 30, 1914. He was raised northeast of Holden. Both he and Kathryn attended Centerview High School.


Kathryn was the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. David Dudley who lived just south of Centerview.  She married Marvin on October 7, 1939 in Warrensburg at the home of the Rev. J.C. Hollyman.  They made their home on the Porter Murray farm, 9 miles northeast of Holden.  


Marvin was a bulk agent for DX Sunray and was a member of the Elks Lodge and Moose Lodge.  He was a deacon and elder in the Presbyterian Church.  Kathryn was a member of the staff of the farm bureau in the courthouse.


Their son Jerry Marvin Colster, was born August 25, 1941.  I’m not sure about the birthdate of the daughter, Jane Elizabeth (Nolte).


After Marvin’s death on October 25, 1973, Kathryn married Frank Wells, a former state representative. He passed away and she married Lyle Jacoby.  Lyle and Kathryn spent their final years at Country Club Care Center in Warrensburg.

The cute little boy, Jerry, was in the Missouri National Guard for a while serving with the 635th Aviation Battalion in Warrensburg.  I was in the 635th at the same time and thought Jerry was an intelligent and very funny fellow.

Tuesday, June 16, 2015

They Didn't Want to Be There

In this day and age, when someone has their picture taken, they usually smile.  It's not uncommon, though, to see people looking stern in older photographs.  Here are some images found in the Simmon's Studio collection where the family members don't just look stern.  They look just plain mad.  

Here is an attractive picture to hang over the fireplace.  The father and daughter look as if they are about to attack someone, and the mother looks like she'd be glad to see them do it.



The mom looks happy in this picture.


But the little girls definitely didn't want to be there.

If someone has any information about the people in either of these pictures, please leave a message in the comment section.

Thanks to Joann Cross who left this comment on Facebook about last week's picture: 



 I have the brochure which contains this pic. This is the Junior Dept., Sunday School, First Baptist Church. The brochure (with other pics) shows the overcrowding conditions of the church; therefore, action was taken to build the educational building connected to the Church. This was in the early 1950's with Dr. Earl Harding as the Pastor. (I was a member of Young Married People's class and we met at Sweeney-Phillips.) Overcrowding conditions is a GOOD church attendance problem!!!